Colored National Council meeting
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Colored National Council meeting
Subject
Industrial College debate by Colored National Council
Description
A report of the National Council's discussion on the feasibility of a manual labor school, specifically the Industrial College, advocated by Frederick Douglass.
Source
Colored National Council, Liberator, 27 July 1855. Accessible Archives. African American Newspapers: The 19th Century. Reproduced by permission. www.accessible-archives.com/
Publisher
Accessible Archives
Date
1855-07-27
Scripto
Transcription
[PAGE 1]
COLORED NATIONAL COUNCIL The sketch of the proceedings of the recent National Council, copied into THE LIBERATOR from the Toronto Provincial Freeman, induces me to say a few words on the same subject. At the Conference referred to, only the States of New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Illinois were represented. Wm. C. Nell, an original member from Massachusetts, although happening to be present, was predisposed against any participation, because of valid objections, constitutional and otherwise. As, however, the Council insisted upon his voting, he negatived all the questions submitted during his stay. Rev. Amos G. Beman, also an original member from Connecticut, refused to vote, for reasons satisfactory to himself. The principal topic discussed was the Industrial College, on which ability and earnestness were exhibited on both sides. Mr. Bonner, of Illinois, thought the colored people had too long been dependent upon what might be done for them by the whites. It was time that they did something for themselves. He hoped this report would be adopted, for he did not believe that the colored youth could otherwise find channels through which to elevate themselves to a position of independence and respectability.
[PAGE 2]
Mr. Douglass fully concurred with the last speaker in the propriety of adopting the report; but he deemed the Industrial College of so much moment, that he hoped it would be more fully discussed. He believed that if an agent had been appointed at the time the plan was first proposed, it would now be placed in a position of success beyond all doubt. This scheme had been pronounced, by the first periodical in the world, to be the greatest and most comprehensive for elevating the colored race in this country yet proposed. That is the the opinion of the New York Tribune. He was aware that some of the abolition papers had opposed the plan, but if the colored people would ever arrive at a re- respectable place in the society, they must do their own thinking. ing. The colored people are now the sick of man of America; those who pretend to be their friends measure ure their place and gauge their ideas and pat them on the back, but if they step beyond that narrow place, those friends become villifiers and enemies. He wanted the colored men to feel that they possessed the power to overcome the prejudice against their color. He did not see why colored men's enterprises should be stig- stigmatized by their color. When white men start a school for their children, no one stigmatizes it as proscriptive; why, then, do they charge the colored man with proscriptiveness scriptiveness when he seeks to overcome the disabilities ties attendant upon his position? The proscription is theirs, not his.
[PAGE 3]
Mr. D said he hoped that if they voted down this proposition, the Council would remember that they decided that it was proscriptive for the colored people to make an effort to elevate themselves; ; that they were incompetent to do any thing to help themselves. The flat had gone forth from the central organ at Boston, that all efforts to elevate the free colored people, while slavery existed in America, are useless. He expected to see the school voted down, and should say no more. Mr. Stephen Smith, of Philadelphia, said that most of the colored mechanics in Philadelphia had received their education in the South, and he knew that the colored people of the city of Philadelphia could not obtain opportunity to learn mechanical trades. But wherever a colored man understood a trad he was sustained in Philadelphia. Dr. Pennington thought that the colored people ought to do their part in educating men with the whites. The white people established schools for black and white; ; why should not the colored people start schools and work-shops for white and black? Dr. J. McCune Smith, in a speech answering objections, asked - Is not this school practicable? Gentlemen, we have to do impracticable things. We must
[PAGE 4]
[unclear]ing [/unclear] , as sings the Black Swan, - we must write, as writes Dumas, - speak, as Douglass speaks, - before we are acknowledged. We have to struggle harder to be on the level of society than those already there. The impracticability of this measure is one of its choice features, in my mind[unclear]:[/unclear] : but I think it to be practicable; ; for, make it a fact before the free colored people, and you will find that you will gather up the mass of public sympathy, which now can find no real vent, for our benefit. [The query here arises - Did Dumas learn rhetoric or Frederick Douglass oratory in a colored college?] Mr. Edward V. Clark, of New York, differed from Mr. Douglass in regard to the cause of the opposition manifested by the colored people to the proposed school. The Manual Labor School never could develop any degree of perfection in mechanical or agricultural education among its pupils. At Oberlin, Oneida, and elsewhere, this fact had long since become apparent. And if they established it, what white man would teach colored children a trade? How could such an institution be self-sustaining? What would the $ 80,000- - not the first cent of which had been collected- - amount to? He would suggest that social communities of colored people be established, so that the mechanic arts could be nurtured within their limits.
[PAGE 5]
Mr. George T. Downing, of Rhode Island, was not able to see clearly the practicability of this plan. There is, and the truth must be spoken, too much apathy on our part. We might, if we pleased, find plenty of opportunities of learning trades and working at them afterward. He enumerated many instances in proof of his position. The only argument that could be advanced in favor of this school was that it might tend to induce colored people to feel the necessity of educating their children to trades. The natural tendency of proscriptive measures is depressive. An instance of this kind is shown by the schools of Worcester, where, at the wish of the colored citizens, a separate school was started, and failed. Such, he thought, would be the fate of the Manual Labor School. Mr. Douglas had stated that the will is all that is wanted - there is the rub! ! There is actually not interest enough in the matter to carry it into effect. He believed there was no necessity for it, and that conviction had been strengthened by the remarks of to-day.
[PAGE 6]
Mr. J.E. E. BROWN, of Elmira, New York, instanced several colored workshops and workmen in Elmira, where white and colored are employed. He believed that colored mechanics could always find employment. Mr. Philip A. Bell, , of New York, opposed the establishment of the Manual Labor College, contending that the whole plan was impracticable, and had been proved to be so at Oberlin, Oneida, Central College, and every where else. Even in Prussia, where Labor Colleges are largely endowed by the government, they have not been self-supporting. The colored people had frequently made efforts to establish educational institutions, and always failed, and they would not succeed in this. The members of State Councils present being invited to an expression of opinion, J. W. DUFFIN, of Geneva, N. Y., hoped that the report would not be adopted. I feel, said he, that we are not yet prepared for its passage. I have been convinced of this by the speeches this afternoon. I live in the pro-slavery county of New York. The Abolitionists have abandoned our ground to the heathen, and there, out of three hundred colored people, I can get any number of colored youth, from one to twenty, into any educational institution, from the blacksmith shop to an entrance into the free college. I do not go to abolitionists--I - I do not believe they are more ready to do us good than others. Where is the necessity for establishing such an institution as is proposed, when we feel assured it will fail for want of patronage?
[PAGE 7]
Charles Lenox Remond, of Massachusetts, held that what the colored race most wanted in this country was equal rights in the community- a fair field and no favor. This he believed the Anti-Slavery party would afford him. And with such a field, he did not need any such school as the one proposed. The great want was a public sentiment recognizing the colored man as an American citizen. Whatever position the colored race had attained to in this country, was due to the efforts of the abolitionists, and whatever they had to hope for would be through their assistance, and he was not prepared to turn his back upon them. Of the thirteen present, seven voted in the affirmative, and the Chairman decided the report adopted.
[PAGE 8]
It is an undeniable fact, that the colored people of the several States are not in harmony with the National Council and its proceedings. At a meeting of colored citizens, recently held in New York, in Rev. Mr. Hodges' church, the following resolutions were adopted, which we copy from the Salem (Ohio) Bugle:- Resolved, That we do not acquiesce with the National Council of Colored People in the establishment of proscriptive institutions, or in other measures set forth by that body. Resolved, That we protest against any attempt, by any body of men, of any color, to strengthen that which is dying out of itself. Resolved, That it is unwise and impolitic, at this time, to establish an Industrial School, or erect a building for free colored youth. If free, let them have the freedom of schools in free States. Resolved, That we hail with pleasure the example of the Star in the East, (Massachusetts,) which shines brighter than ever. She has opened the doors of her schools to youth, irrespective of complexion, and we look forward to the day when the State of New York will follow her example. A Committee of the Council have issued a call for a National Convention in Philadelphia next October, to which delegates are to be chosen in September. Should they conclude to make it an Anti-Slavery Convention, and invite those friendly, irrespective of complexion, some good might be anticipated. Otherwise, in the present advanced state of public sentiment, it looks like taking steps backward. Boston, July, 1855. W.C.N. C. N.
COLORED NATIONAL COUNCIL The sketch of the proceedings of the recent National Council, copied into THE LIBERATOR from the Toronto Provincial Freeman, induces me to say a few words on the same subject. At the Conference referred to, only the States of New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Illinois were represented. Wm. C. Nell, an original member from Massachusetts, although happening to be present, was predisposed against any participation, because of valid objections, constitutional and otherwise. As, however, the Council insisted upon his voting, he negatived all the questions submitted during his stay. Rev. Amos G. Beman, also an original member from Connecticut, refused to vote, for reasons satisfactory to himself. The principal topic discussed was the Industrial College, on which ability and earnestness were exhibited on both sides. Mr. Bonner, of Illinois, thought the colored people had too long been dependent upon what might be done for them by the whites. It was time that they did something for themselves. He hoped this report would be adopted, for he did not believe that the colored youth could otherwise find channels through which to elevate themselves to a position of independence and respectability.
[PAGE 2]
Mr. Douglass fully concurred with the last speaker in the propriety of adopting the report; but he deemed the Industrial College of so much moment, that he hoped it would be more fully discussed. He believed that if an agent had been appointed at the time the plan was first proposed, it would now be placed in a position of success beyond all doubt. This scheme had been pronounced, by the first periodical in the world, to be the greatest and most comprehensive for elevating the colored race in this country yet proposed. That is the the opinion of the New York Tribune. He was aware that some of the abolition papers had opposed the plan, but if the colored people would ever arrive at a re- respectable place in the society, they must do their own thinking. ing. The colored people are now the sick of man of America; those who pretend to be their friends measure ure their place and gauge their ideas and pat them on the back, but if they step beyond that narrow place, those friends become villifiers and enemies. He wanted the colored men to feel that they possessed the power to overcome the prejudice against their color. He did not see why colored men's enterprises should be stig- stigmatized by their color. When white men start a school for their children, no one stigmatizes it as proscriptive; why, then, do they charge the colored man with proscriptiveness scriptiveness when he seeks to overcome the disabilities ties attendant upon his position? The proscription is theirs, not his.
[PAGE 3]
Mr. D said he hoped that if they voted down this proposition, the Council would remember that they decided that it was proscriptive for the colored people to make an effort to elevate themselves; ; that they were incompetent to do any thing to help themselves. The flat had gone forth from the central organ at Boston, that all efforts to elevate the free colored people, while slavery existed in America, are useless. He expected to see the school voted down, and should say no more. Mr. Stephen Smith, of Philadelphia, said that most of the colored mechanics in Philadelphia had received their education in the South, and he knew that the colored people of the city of Philadelphia could not obtain opportunity to learn mechanical trades. But wherever a colored man understood a trad he was sustained in Philadelphia. Dr. Pennington thought that the colored people ought to do their part in educating men with the whites. The white people established schools for black and white; ; why should not the colored people start schools and work-shops for white and black? Dr. J. McCune Smith, in a speech answering objections, asked - Is not this school practicable? Gentlemen, we have to do impracticable things. We must
[PAGE 4]
[unclear]ing [/unclear] , as sings the Black Swan, - we must write, as writes Dumas, - speak, as Douglass speaks, - before we are acknowledged. We have to struggle harder to be on the level of society than those already there. The impracticability of this measure is one of its choice features, in my mind[unclear]:[/unclear] : but I think it to be practicable; ; for, make it a fact before the free colored people, and you will find that you will gather up the mass of public sympathy, which now can find no real vent, for our benefit. [The query here arises - Did Dumas learn rhetoric or Frederick Douglass oratory in a colored college?] Mr. Edward V. Clark, of New York, differed from Mr. Douglass in regard to the cause of the opposition manifested by the colored people to the proposed school. The Manual Labor School never could develop any degree of perfection in mechanical or agricultural education among its pupils. At Oberlin, Oneida, and elsewhere, this fact had long since become apparent. And if they established it, what white man would teach colored children a trade? How could such an institution be self-sustaining? What would the $ 80,000- - not the first cent of which had been collected- - amount to? He would suggest that social communities of colored people be established, so that the mechanic arts could be nurtured within their limits.
[PAGE 5]
Mr. George T. Downing, of Rhode Island, was not able to see clearly the practicability of this plan. There is, and the truth must be spoken, too much apathy on our part. We might, if we pleased, find plenty of opportunities of learning trades and working at them afterward. He enumerated many instances in proof of his position. The only argument that could be advanced in favor of this school was that it might tend to induce colored people to feel the necessity of educating their children to trades. The natural tendency of proscriptive measures is depressive. An instance of this kind is shown by the schools of Worcester, where, at the wish of the colored citizens, a separate school was started, and failed. Such, he thought, would be the fate of the Manual Labor School. Mr. Douglas had stated that the will is all that is wanted - there is the rub! ! There is actually not interest enough in the matter to carry it into effect. He believed there was no necessity for it, and that conviction had been strengthened by the remarks of to-day.
[PAGE 6]
Mr. J.E. E. BROWN, of Elmira, New York, instanced several colored workshops and workmen in Elmira, where white and colored are employed. He believed that colored mechanics could always find employment. Mr. Philip A. Bell, , of New York, opposed the establishment of the Manual Labor College, contending that the whole plan was impracticable, and had been proved to be so at Oberlin, Oneida, Central College, and every where else. Even in Prussia, where Labor Colleges are largely endowed by the government, they have not been self-supporting. The colored people had frequently made efforts to establish educational institutions, and always failed, and they would not succeed in this. The members of State Councils present being invited to an expression of opinion, J. W. DUFFIN, of Geneva, N. Y., hoped that the report would not be adopted. I feel, said he, that we are not yet prepared for its passage. I have been convinced of this by the speeches this afternoon. I live in the pro-slavery county of New York. The Abolitionists have abandoned our ground to the heathen, and there, out of three hundred colored people, I can get any number of colored youth, from one to twenty, into any educational institution, from the blacksmith shop to an entrance into the free college. I do not go to abolitionists--I - I do not believe they are more ready to do us good than others. Where is the necessity for establishing such an institution as is proposed, when we feel assured it will fail for want of patronage?
[PAGE 7]
Charles Lenox Remond, of Massachusetts, held that what the colored race most wanted in this country was equal rights in the community- a fair field and no favor. This he believed the Anti-Slavery party would afford him. And with such a field, he did not need any such school as the one proposed. The great want was a public sentiment recognizing the colored man as an American citizen. Whatever position the colored race had attained to in this country, was due to the efforts of the abolitionists, and whatever they had to hope for would be through their assistance, and he was not prepared to turn his back upon them. Of the thirteen present, seven voted in the affirmative, and the Chairman decided the report adopted.
[PAGE 8]
It is an undeniable fact, that the colored people of the several States are not in harmony with the National Council and its proceedings. At a meeting of colored citizens, recently held in New York, in Rev. Mr. Hodges' church, the following resolutions were adopted, which we copy from the Salem (Ohio) Bugle:- Resolved, That we do not acquiesce with the National Council of Colored People in the establishment of proscriptive institutions, or in other measures set forth by that body. Resolved, That we protest against any attempt, by any body of men, of any color, to strengthen that which is dying out of itself. Resolved, That it is unwise and impolitic, at this time, to establish an Industrial School, or erect a building for free colored youth. If free, let them have the freedom of schools in free States. Resolved, That we hail with pleasure the example of the Star in the East, (Massachusetts,) which shines brighter than ever. She has opened the doors of her schools to youth, irrespective of complexion, and we look forward to the day when the State of New York will follow her example. A Committee of the Council have issued a call for a National Convention in Philadelphia next October, to which delegates are to be chosen in September. Should they conclude to make it an Anti-Slavery Convention, and invite those friendly, irrespective of complexion, some good might be anticipated. Otherwise, in the present advanced state of public sentiment, it looks like taking steps backward. Boston, July, 1855. W.C.N. C. N.
Convention Minutes Item Type Metadata
Contributor
This transcription is the combination of work from more than 4,500 people who volunteered during the 2022 celebration of Douglass Day, held in partnership with Zooniverse.
Event ID
1855.PA-10.16.PHIL
Citation
The Liberator, “Colored National Council meeting,” Colored Conventions Project Digital Records, accessed October 22, 2026, https://omeka.coloredconventions.org/items/show/796.